Sustainable Ag in the Sunshine State, with Florida's David Royal from the Nature Conservancy

The State of Florida is as unique a place to farm as it is important to the North American food supply, serving as America's "winter vegetable basket."

But whether it's citrus or tomatoes or cabbage or one of the other 300 crops harvested in the Sunshine State, David Royal from the Nature Conservancy says 4R nutrient management principles are as important as ever when it comes to protecting Florida's complex and varied watersheds and keeping growers growing.

In this episode, he updates Tom and Sally on some of the innovative approaches growers are taking in Florida, and how they're doing a better job of telling their sustainability story to regulators and to the public.

Plus, Tom and Sally dig in on the volatile global market conditions and the uncooperative weather that have hampered planting this year, and analyze what it will mean for growers going forward.

Episode Transcript

David Royal:

You might laugh when I say this, but I think sustainable success in Florida agriculture is if we can keep that farmer farming. Agriculture is truly the backbone of Florida, and we need to keep these guys continuing to farm. And they do it because they love it. They know that they're not going to be rich. They do it because they love it.

Dusty Weis:

Welcome to The Future. Faster. A sustainable agriculture podcast by Nutrien Ag Solutions, with our very own Tom Daniel, Director of North America Retail and Grower Sustainable Ag, and Dr. Sally Flis, Senior Manager, North America Sustainable Ag and Carbon. This is your opportunity to learn about the next horizon in sustainable agriculture for growers, for partners, for the planet. To us, it's not about changing what's always worked, it's about continuing to do the little things that make a big impact.

Dusty Weis:

On this week's episode, David Royal, Florida Nutrient Stewardship Project Manager at The Nature Conservancy joins us to discuss how he's working with growers in the Sunshine State to promote 4R nutrient stewardship and protect Florida's complex and fragile watersheds. But if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed to this podcast in your favorite app. Also make sure you follow Nutrien Ag Solutions on Facebook and Instagram.

Dusty Weis:

I'm Dusty Weis, and it's time once again to introduce Tom Daniel and Sally Flis. And Tom and Sally, I'm the kind of guy who likes to start each day with about 45 minutes, an hour of the news. And lately, that's been a great way to ruin the start of my day here between the hostilities in Eastern Europe, Ukraine, Russia and all that, and just some of the resource concerns that our growers are facing here in the States, it's really just a mixed bag. There's a lot of volatility going on in the global food markets, and a lot of growers are just wondering what do we need to know about this? So Tom, what do we need to know about this?

Tom Daniel:

Well obviously, Dusty, if you are reading the news every morning, you're seeing all of this information coming out. In fact I read a report this morning that Indonesia is looking at restricting their palm oil, their cooking oil export out of the country. They want to take care of the people they have in the country first before they export. India's talking about a ban on export of grain coming out of India right now, and basically talking about just having it for their customers.

Tom Daniel:

You take a look at what's going on in the Ukraine right now. They just started or have just completed planting their crop. I saw a report published, I think it was on Wall Street Journal in the last two days that said that they were only 70% planted. So 30% of the overall ground due to the war is not planted. We all know Ukraine is the bread basket of that part of Europe.

Tom Daniel:

So lots of issues right now. And a lot of issues, if you go to the shelf today, the number one discussion I saw on the news this morning was baby formula and the lack of baby formula. A lot of these things we take for granted, Dusty and Sally. We've never seen times like this before, where we're actually wondering what's going to be on the shelf next week when we go to the grocery store. And Sally, I know you've been out talking to different groups and different growers. There's a lot of responsibility on the U.S. farmer today and the Canadian farmer today to produce food. Then we have our own conditions. I know you've looked at weather conditions over the country. Sally, there's a lot of things against us right now.

Sally Flis:

Yeah, it's a tough year again, Tom. I mean, I think if I think about the Northeast, last year wasn't so bad, but we had some pretty big crop failures three, four years ago with all the rain in the Northeast. And we're pretty wet and cold here again. The one that hit me this morning because it's going to affect me over the next two weeks is the $6-plus diesel fuel. As all these guys are getting out in the field to start planting and as we're starting to truck stuff around to deliver, that price is twice what it was last year this time, just to get the work done, not even looking at the input costs that fuel prices affect, but just to simply get the work done, your input cost is doubled on fuel across the board for us, for the growers, for anybody delivering product or delivering food to us on the store shelves.

Sally Flis:

It's interesting, the supply side of things, my family was watching the news the other morning and made similar comments to what you're seeing in the news, Tom, of, "Well, don't we just grow enough wheat in the US that we shouldn't have to worry about the global market?" I think that's probably a pretty common consumer perception of, well, we grow enough to just feed us. But the problem is the logistics behind that, right? Because we aren't harvesting wheat every day that we need to make bread.

Sally Flis:

So we've got to have that interconnected supply chain to really be able to get the product where it's needed 365 days a year. So it's a lot going on and it's hard to tie this back to the work we're doing, but at the same time, we're out having discussions with growers about 2023 practices or fall 2022 practices like cover crops. And we know, I haven't seen a year in my career where we've ever had enough cover crop seed. So what are those other resource concerns or challenges that are really going to impact a grower being able to make a decision in a conservation or a sustainable ag practice?

Tom Daniel:

Yeah. And Sally, another thing to talk about too, you've got the drought situation out in the Northwest or in the western part of the country, and where does a significant portion of our cover crop seed come from? That Oregon area, those areas out in the West. So they're under heavy, heavy drought in a lot of those areas now. So are we going to have enough cover crops this fall? Sally, you just said it. There's never been enough cover crops, right? We've always had trouble getting seed in the fall. It just seems like it's always a problem. Something else that's concerning to me right now is just the weather conditions in general. You've got some areas in South America right now that are drought stricken. We've got areas of the US. In fact, Sally, we were on a call with John Griffin the other day, talking about the drought in west Texas and even in the Oklahoma area where the wheat is. And Sally, what did he tell us?

Tom Daniel:

He said it's pretty tough, right? There's going to be areas that wheat's not even going to be harvested now because it burned up. So it's just not going to be available. I just saw a report, and Dusty, I know we're always challenged not to date our podcast by putting dates in there, but I'm going to put one in there now. I just want to read this real quick. It says that DTN just reported that 22% of the corn crop had been planted as of Sunday, May the eighth. That's just up eight percentage points from the week before. Typically this time of year, we're over 50% planted for the country. So for us to be to that point today, and if you look at any of the charts, Sally, especially in Illinois and those areas that we consider to be the corn belt, every day that they lose planting after basically May the sixth, they start losing yield.

Sally Flis:

Well, and the other thing I've heard in talking with colleagues across those Midwest states is Iowa last week was 43% planted. Indiana went out and tried to plant, and now everybody's searching for replant seeds because the soil wasn't warm enough for those plantings to take place. And with these supply chain impacts and the drought conditions where a lot of the seed corn is produced, some of this corn may never get planted. There may not be seed to replace what was lost because we all get nervous and a little anxious this time of year. We want to get stuff done, but there's a lot more feeding into these decisions. That leads to the other thing that you and I have been discussing and that we hear in conversations all the time, both internally in Nutrien and from outside parties that we partner with is, well, what's a dollar amount? How much money do you think we really have to offer growers to make this happen?

Sally Flis:

My response is there isn't a dollar amount that tips this over. Because you could offer growers $5,000 an acre to do conservation, and if they can't get cover crop seed, or they can't get a different nitrogen product, or they have a bad spring, or they have a drought or any of these other things that impact their ability to actually implement that practice change, it doesn't matter how much money you offer them. So we need to think about that whole supply chain impact on conservation practice or sustainability practice implementation, because it's not just as simple as, "Can't we find a dollar amount that's enough to get growers to say yes?"

Sally Flis:

Because growers say yes to our practice changes and the projects and programs we want to do all the time. Then we circle back to the planning steps of that conversation. And they've talked to their crop consultant, or they've talked to their local retail branch, and they don't have the product they need, or they don't have the right type of service, or they can't get out there because there's no crop that's going to grow anyways. So it's not as simple as just throw enough money at growers to get them to make a different decision.

Tom Daniel:

Yeah. And Sally, I think one of the biggest drivers right now in decisions by growers, when you have a constricted market or constricted planting period, as we're in right now, things change. I mean, farmers will change on the fly because they have to, they have to be flexible. So I'll give a good example. I've got a farmer buddy that does a lot of in-furrow fertility. He'll put a lot of his stuff in a band in-furrow. I was talking to him the other day and I said, "Hey, how's planting going?" He said, "Well, this is the first year that I've not been able to do in-furrow on all my corn acres." He said, "I just didn't have time." The windows between rains were only 24 to 48 hours. And he said, "It just came down to the point that if I had to haul liquid all day to my planter, I just didn't have time. I had to get it planted."

Tom Daniel:

So he said, "I put it in the ground. I'm going to come back with Y-Drops or some other form of getting some fertility put on." But he said, "We just had to make the choice and had to make a change." And Sally, I laughed a little bit. I asked him, I said, "Well, did you get your corn planted?" He said, "Yeah, the first time." So you know what that means, right? He already recognizes that what he's done is probably not the optimum situation to plant. But it goes back to what you said, Sally. You just got to do it. Sometimes you just got to go do it. And that's not a Nike commercial here, but you got to go do it sometimes. Right?

Sally Flis:

Well, and that leads, I think, to another point, Tom, that we were talking about this morning is while everybody is feeling pressured and anxious right now to get stuff done across the board from growers to crop consultants to our team, you got to take that minute to step back and make sure everything you're doing is safe for yourself, for on the farm, for your family, for your day-to-day life. So just want to make sure people are taking a minute to slow down and think about their actions as they're out there busy, because there's a lot worse things that can happen than having to replant your corn seed.

Tom Daniel:

That's exactly right. And Nutrien's always, we have a focus on safety every day as a company. I say this not only to the growers that may be listening to this podcast, but to our own people. We get in a hurry when we're behind, and we work extremely long hours occasionally, and we get tired and sometimes we make poor decisions. And as Sally said, you have to step back, slow down and just understand that saving two minutes here that might cause someone to get caught up in a PTO or some type of operation on the farm that they get hurt is always the bad things that happen, right?

Tom Daniel:

And I'll say this. Kids are wonderful on the farm. My kids grew up on the farm. They grew up around equipment, so forth and so on. But when we get busy, kids have a tendency to get into places they shouldn't be, and we don't see them. And when we start talking about big equipment that doesn't have a good line of sight on certain pieces and parts of the equipment running, be aware of your kids, be aware of where they are. Because as you said, Sally, a corn crop can get replanted, but we can't replace a child that gets hurt on an accident. So I would encourage everybody to just be safe right now because it's a hard time.

Sally Flis:

Well, you mentioned the working long hours part, Tom, and that applies across the board. We're all getting pushed on different things, and making sure you take the time to really reflect on how much time you're spending on that work-life balance. May is also is Mental Health Awareness Month as well, right? Am I correct on that?

Tom Daniel:

I think you're right. I'm almost sure you're right.

Sally Flis:

I believe it is. So it's the rush of trying to save time, but it's also, as we all have increased pressures and think about the stress of these increased costs that we were talking about earlier of it's going to impact all of us at home. I don't think, my paycheck hasn't doubled since last year, but I know my fuel price has doubled since last year. That impacts us all the way down through. So just really trying to find those ways where you can make sure that your whole family is able to function well and everybody's having some of their needs met is as important as paying attention to the safety around the big equipment too, I think.

Tom Daniel:

Absolutely. We are in a very uncertain time in an uncertain world, right? But I will say this. Absolutely we work in the best industry that you could be in because if we talk about an industry that the world absolutely depends on, we're in it right now. Right? I think we need to take that seriously and understand that we are producing the food for this world right now. And this country that we live in has the freedom to allow us to raise those crops and to participate in agriculture.

Tom Daniel:

So the positive is in the US today and in Canada, we still have what we call freedom to farm. So growers can make decisions. We may not like all their decisions, Sally, occasionally, but they have the freedom to make those decisions. And they make decisions that are best for their farming operations to continue for the next generation. So I think that's a joy for us is that we still get to participate in agriculture every day. It's an honor to be in it. And I think as a company, our team is very engaged in making sure our customers have the most successful year they can have.

Dusty Weis:

Tom, Sally, it's always been a noble calling. It’s just this year in particular feels a little more noble than usual as America's growers work to feed and clothe the world. It's certainly something that we stand behind them on as they're out there. I liked what you said, Sally, about making sure to take a time to just catch your breath and think before you act, because too often it feels like we're just reacting in a time like this. And certainly careful resource management is going to be the order of the day here for a while. And there's no resource so precious right now as clean water.

Dusty Weis:

In fact one of the most interesting, most complicated water management projects in North America is happening in the great state of Florida. There are a lot of lessons that we can take from that and apply elsewhere. So after the break here, David Royal, Florida Nutrient Stewardship Project Manager at The Nature Conservancy will join us. That's in a moment here on The Future. Faster. This is The Future. Faster. A sustainable agriculture podcast by Nutrien Ag Solutions. I'm Dusty Weis along with Tom Daniel and Sally Flis. And we're joined now by David Royal, Florida Nutrient Stewardship Project Manager at The Nature Conservancy. So David, thank you for joining us.

David Royal:

Thank you for having me.

Dusty Weis:

David, to get things kicked off, can you describe what The Nature Conservancy is and elaborate a little bit on the sorts of projects that you're working on?

David Royal:

Okay. The Nature Conservancy is a worldwide conservation organization with the whole goal of helping to improve and protect water quality. My role in Florida is I work with farmers on their nutrient programs, educating and promoting the Four R Nutrient Stewardship Program.

Dusty Weis:

Okay, got it.

Tom Daniel:

So David, we spend a lot of time around here, Sally and I do especially, talking about row crops, right? Because we're always talking about the carbon programs in the Midwest or sustainability projects that we've got going on around corn and soybeans and wheat and cotton. But in your situation in Florida, give me an idea on the specialty crops in your area. What are some of the sustainability programs and practices that you have on those specialty crops?

David Royal:

You've got to remember one thing. Florida's a little different than anybody else. We're growing over 300 different crops in Florida. You've also got to remember that Florida is basically the winter vegetable basket for the whole Eastern United States. One of the other differences that we have is we have a lot of acres that will be growing up to four crops in a year on that one acre, depending on what they're growing. So what we've been focusing on is working with the farmers to be better nutrient managers of their programs. We are seeing a lot of farmers with up to a 30% reduction in fertilizer.

Dusty Weis:

This isn't news when I say it out loud, but Florida definitely has a different ecology, I think, than a lot of the growers that they work with here as well. What can you tell us about the type of soil and some of the special challenges that growers face there?

David Royal:

Well, one thing about Florida, and the way I look at it is it's broke up into basically five different growing regions. You've got south Florida, which has got the real rich muck soil, which is totally different than central Florida, which is totally different than southwest Florida. Then when you get up into north Florida, you get into the pure sand. And then you've got northwest Florida, which is a whole different region. So you've got to manage your programs to your farm and to the dirt that we're working with.

Sally Flis:

David, you mentioned that the sustainability projects and through the Four Rs working with growers in Florida, you've got some pretty significant fertilizer rate reductions overall. So I remember when you took me out, we visited tomatoes, we visited oranges. What are some of the tools and technologies? I remember in the orange grove some pretty cool stuff and ways they've changed nitrogen management in oranges, not just to combat nitrogen loss but also to combat some of the disease challenges like citrus greening.

David Royal:

Correct. Years ago, citrus growers basically put out two to three applications of fertilizer and they were putting out a large amount at one time. And really since citrus greening has started, they've come to the conclusion that we need to be spoon feeding these trees all year long and just giving them a little bit. We've got growers that are putting out anywhere from eight to 16 applications a year on their citrus now. And with precision ag, and I think precision ag is going to be a great tool for the industry, in the citrus industry they have a mechanism called the seeing eye, and it actually reads the canopy of the tree and it tells the spreader to slow down or speed up, so it's only putting out the fertilizer that that tree needs, whereas years ago, everything got the same rate across the board. So we've really come a long way and believe me, the farmers want to only put out what they need to put, especially when you look at today's times.

Sally Flis:

So to follow on that, I know all growers talk a lot about soil health. But given the unique climate in Florida, I know you've been involved with some of the really early soil health testing in orange groves, I believe you guys did some soil health testing.

David Royal:

Yes, we did orange groves, and then we started doing a project that's up in the Suwanee. It's a 16-year sod based rotation project. So I was excited about that. But we're learning more and more. And as we teach the growers new production practices, soil health has become a big, big topic along with nutrient management. And we know that we've got to have healthy soils, especially with us growing so many crops on the same acres. It really does make a difference. And we're educating the farmers about that. And I think we're making headway.

Tom Daniel:

So David, one of the things that's kind of odd when we have discussions with multiple guests, people find it unusual that we're a fertilizer company and we're talking about reduced inputs and reducing fertilizer use on the farm. But it goes back to what you said a minute ago. We don't want to waste nutrition. We want to make sure the nutrition we apply is being used by the plants that we're growing that year, and not showing up in watersheds and in the river or anywhere else. How do you find yourself working with some of our nutrient personnel around some of those different ideas?

David Royal:

The way I look at this, this has all got to be a team effort. We've all got to work together. I mean, we all know that the Four Rs are the right source, the right rate, the right time and the right place. I'm going to be honest with you. I totally rely on the fertilizer reps to do the rate and the source. That's their expertise. But if I can work with them to work on getting it in the right place and at the right time with the farmer, as a team effort, it's amazing the headway that we have made because people see us coming in there, joined together to help them, and they want to do it. They really do.

Tom Daniel:

For us, David, the key component there is we are a retail fertilizer company. We're selling inputs to the grower. Having the opportunity to work with someone from The Nature Conservancy, it just adds credibility to everything that we do, right? So it's a valuable part in our whole process.

David Royal:

And Sally's been to it. We've got a cabbage grower that we worked with, and Nutrien supplies all of his fertilizer. And the fertilizer rep wasn't making headways. But when we came in together, we started slow, but we've made tremendous amount of headway with that one grower over the last several years.

Sally Flis:

So David, another thing that's a little bit unique in Florida is you guys have a lot of regulatory and social pressure around ag practices in order to limit nutrient losses because of fresh water and salt water quality concerns. I know you had some research projects that you guys were trying to get implemented around nitrogen management in corn silage, I think, in north Florida. How are those projects coming?

David Royal:

They're moving along really well. We're working with the growers. So many of them were putting their fertilizer out through their pivots, and we're working with them to side dress the applications. And we're seeing a tremendous reduction. Matter of fact, this year, the Four R Advocate Award winner, he's reduced his nitrogen by 50 pounds per acre by changing his production practices. There again, it was a team effort. It was the fertilizer rep, the University of Florida IFAS people and us working together as a group. I think that's one way that we're making headway. One of the things that really is important in Florida is irrigation management is such a key to nutrient management. We're working with the farmers about not pushing the nutrients out and beyond the root zones and keeping it right there where it can be fully utilized by the plant.

Dusty Weis:

Sally alluded to the social and regulatory pressure in Florida as far as water management goes. I don't think that people that haven't lived in Florida really realize just how big a deal that is in Florida, the amount of state bureaucracy that goes into that and just the degree to which the state invests in maintaining its water. Can you tell us a little bit more background on that and how Florida's water management is such a unique setup?

David Royal:

Yes, sir. Florida is broken up into five different water management districts, and one of their goals is the water quality. But one of the biggest challenges that we're facing now is that the Florida Department of Environmental Protection has what they call BMAPs, which are Basin Management Action Plans. And there has to be a reduction in the nitrogen in these BMAPs, and they have to be met over a certain period of time. Last year we came out with Senate Bill 712, and our farmers now have to turn over their nitrogen and phosphorus records yearly based on their crops. Now, they are protected. The Department of Ag will combine those into a watershed, and then that watershed amount will be turned over to the Department of Environmental Protection.

David Royal:

But we are getting more and more, I don't really want to say regulated. But the other thing people have got to understand. The Florida farmers, most of them for the most part are multi-generation farms. They understand that they've got to take care of the land in order for that land to take care of them. So they want to do what is right. One of the things that I've been able to share with so many people is agriculture is always going to be a work in progress. As new technology and new precision ag comes along, they want to get on board with it because they see the benefits of it. So it's just us all working as a team, going out and working with them and making this difference.

Dusty Weis:

How important is it for you then and the growers that you work with to be able to demonstrate these success stories like you mentioned, reducing nitrogen inputs by 50 pounds an acre? Do you have a venue to highlight those success stories? And how receptive our regulators and lawmakers to that?

David Royal:

We're spending more and more time with the regulators, and we are also working very hard to get them on the farm and let them visually see what's happening. Hopefully we're going to have some tours set up with some key legislators as soon as session is over with. But I can recall back when they were doing the BMAPs, DEP, we actually got that whole team out to a farm. And every one of them were saying, "We didn't realize the farmers were doing this." But yet they're the ones writing the rules and the regulations. So I think it's just an education education, education piece.

Tom Daniel:

So David, kind of a final question. I think you may have just answered it. In Nutrien, we talk about what is sustainable success? There's lots of definitions around sustainability, right? How would you define in your role today what is sustainable success?

David Royal:

You might laugh when I say this, but I think sustainable success in Florida agriculture is if we can keep that farmer farming. He wants to be a good steward of the land. He wants to take care of it. He realizes how important the water quality is in our state because people don't realize, they think of Florida as the beaches and as Mickey Mouse world. But agriculture is the backbone of Florida and it is the economic driver. Because tourism is up and down. I mean, we've seen what COVID has done. We've seen what other things have done in Florida. So agriculture is truly the backbone of Florida, and we need to keep these guys continuing to farm. And they do it because they love it. They know that they're not going to be rich. They do it because they love it.

Tom Daniel:

It sounds like sustainable success to me, David.

Dusty Weis:

Yeah, certainly. If you had a magic wand, you could wave it, and at the drop of a hat, there's a new tool in the toolbox for the growers that you work with to help them achieve their sustainability goals. What would that tool look like?

David Royal:

I think we've got one, and I think tools are going to continue to come about. But I think soil moisture probes is a great tool for the farm industry to have because they can manage their irrigation. And as they manage their irrigation, they're managing their nutrients and they're being able to hold them. And they're conserving water on top of that. But I think every day that we wake up, there's going to be something new for the industry to have.

Sally Flis:

So David, what have you got coming for 2022 projects and programs that you're going to have on the ground as you're working with growers?

David Royal:

This year, we were able to buy 16 probes, soil moisture probes, and in southwest Florida, we've put them in the hands of the county extension agents because we felt that was a good way to have a partnership and to work with the farmers one on one. One of the key things with the soil moisture probes is where the farmer totally understands the dashboard. Then as soon as they feel comfortable ... And Florida's a little blessed than a lot of other states. We actually have opportunity for cost share dollars from the water management districts and then also from the Florida Department of Ag.

David Royal:

As long as a farmer can use precision ag, there's an opportunity to get some cost share dollars in on those equipment and practices. One of the things that we have done is we have tried to go out, and we've tried to target key farmers that everybody else is watching because we think that is the way that we can make the biggest headway because when you get them talking, then everybody else is ready to jump on board. Then also in north Florida, we are doing more and more side dressing applications of fertilizer.

Dusty Weis:

David, on this podcast, Tom and Sally are fond of saying that sustainability takes a field-by-field approach. Certainly there's very few places in the country where the ecology is as varied and as sensitive as it is in Florida. So we appreciate your stopping by to share these insights with us here today. David Royal, Florida Nutrient Stewardship Project Manager at The Nature Conservancy, thank you for joining us on this episode of The Future. Faster.

Dusty Weis:

That is going to conclude this edition of The Future. Faster., the pursuit of sustainable success with Nutrien Ag Solutions. New episodes arrive every other week, so make sure you subscribe in your favorite app and join us again soon. Visit futurefaster.com to learn more. The Future. Faster. podcast is brought to you by Nutrien Ag Solutions with executive producer Connor Erwin and editing by Larry Kilgore III. And it's produced by Podcamp Media, branded podcast production for businesses, podcampmedia.com. For Nutrien Ag Solutions, thanks for listening. I'm Dusty Weis.